Ep. 2: The Greatest Dental Procedure Ever Created?

Part 10:00

This is Podpopuli, podcast for the people. Hey there, welcome to another episode of Beyond the Arches. I'm Daniel Noorthoek, your host, and I've got with me Robert Odom. Hello. Part of the Done In One team. As we talked about in the last episode, we'll be kind of bouncing around with people and hanging out with them and just talking about all things full-arch. So, before we get started, like, subscribe, smash that red button below, all those goofy things, whatever you want to say.

But today's topic is going to be why full-arch is the greatest dental procedure ever created. Amen. Yep. Well, actually, we're going to dial it back. It's not that stupendous, but you got to get the wild titles for the likes, right? There you go. No, but we're going to be talking about... We're going to be talking about full-arch, kind of like how it came about and a little bit more about what it is. ▶And we're going to, you know, as we go down with this series, we're going to talk about, you know, how an implant works and what is an implant and what kind of people need all this.

I mean, there's topics that we could go on for hours and hours. I think one of the reasons why I feel most comfortable kind of co-hosting this with, you know, part of my team is I think I could probably have one episode where I could talk about how an implant works. I think I could probably have one podcast episode that goes about 72 hours of me just like rambling and going in different tangents. So keeping me directed and focused on one topic will be sort of the name of the game.

That's your job number one, Robert. But yeah, so we're going to start off kind of just talking about where this kind of procedure kind of came out from. And, you know, we'll just kind of parlay back and forth about different views and things that you like. You've read. I mean, Robert comes from really having a good pulse on the on the on the community. Right. And having a good perspective on what our patients understand and don't understand.

So, you know, if I'm out in left field, bring me back in. Yeah, definitely. Yeah. So this this procedure specifically, a dental hybrid procedure, teeth in the day, like we talked about last time. Oh, I forgot. I'm going to say this. I'm going to try to say this every single time. OK. Everything we talk about here is more or less off the cuff and is not is my opinion only. Of course, it is the opinion of our done in one team and us.

So, of course, there's going to be caveats. Of course, there's going to be a couple of mistakes with dates here and there. We're not going to do a bunch of full research, maybe occasionally on. If we do some sort of. Historic and show some pictures. But for the most part, we're going to be shooting from the cuff and talking about from our experience and from our opinion. So you don't have to agree. You don't have to listen.

But this is this is kind of where we stand. Absolutely. So where was I going into it? Yeah, we're getting into it. We were talking about. Oh, so so full arch this procedure where we're replacing a full set of teeth, really, the historically kind of comes out. Of in 1998, there was a guy. His name was Paolo Malo, and he was a Portuguese guy and he established a clinic in Lisbon. And I think it was 1998. I think it was 1990.

1990. I could be wrong, too, though. Somewhere. Somewhere in the 90s. 90s. Yep.

Part 23:49

And they what they what they decided they wanted to do is be able to give patients that didn't have any teeth. ▶And didn't have a lot of bone, an option to have those teeth and have that bone or have the support to to support the teeth and have a smile again. And so essentially, the thesis was, let's put implants where we can and find the bone that we can. And let's support those teeth or denture or fabricate something that will be on top of it.

And that's where kind of the all on four technique came from. And the. What I find fascinating is that the original hypothesis was that these teeth or the patient base that was going to love this and flock to it was the group of of patients that were indentures that were very frustrated because, you know, as as everyone kind of pretty much everyone knows a lower denture is almost impossible. An upper denture is somewhat tolerable, affects flavors and things like that.

But a lower denture. Is almost completely intolerable. And so the thought was, hey, we have a bunch of people indentures. They're angry. They're over it. They're going to flock and they're going to line up in droves. And what we have found is while we still get patients with dentures here and there, that wasn't the bulk of the of the community. Right. And so sort of that initial push towards marketing to patients with dentures was. Sort of not what happened to be what our patient base is.

But that's where it really came out of was this. It wasn't, hey, how do we make a bridge to replace Jimmy's teeth? Because he has them now and we need to replace them later. ▶It was more a procedure that was based on this guy doesn't have much bone. Let's put some implants in here where we can and see if we can support the teeth to get him out of dentures, which I find sort of fascinating. That is interesting.

I wonder if, you know, when they've and can I just say, imagine being the first doctor trying this out. But I wonder if they started with like multi-unit bridges or if a full arch bridge was the idea from the beginning, you know? Yeah. I don't know the answer to that question. The multi-unit came on the scene really since I've been in the business. Oh, really? Yeah. It was more. There was an. Internal attachment, but I'm not sure if it was a custom made abutment or a multi-unit.

And that is something specifically that we will talk about probably later today, a little bit as we get into how they ended up a different procedure, how they ended up starting with like doing zirconia bridges and how we've kind of all paths have have led into hybrids. Right. But that's an interesting question. I don't know the exact answer to that. Yeah. So, yeah, that makes sense that, you know.

Part 36:57

It feels like you're kind of limiting yourself to people that are already without teeth. Yeah. And yeah. And in my experience, at least, we get a lot of denture wearers, of course. And this is the ideal procedure for somebody in dentures, of course. But I don't know. It feels like to me, people that have already made that switch to dentures, they learn to tolerate it a little bit more because I feel like there's. I was going to ask you, do you know?

Do you know? Do you know the reason why? And yeah, you're right on. I feel like once you get over that initial hump, I mean, we all know our grandparents were in dentures for 20, 30, 40 years. But it's that getting used to being in dentures. It's a real challenge for people. Yeah. ▶So if you could avoid find a way to avoid that altogether and go straight from, you know, having teeth, which granted not not good teeth, but teeth, you can at least chew.

Right. You're not gumming food to to something being replaced immediately. That's a fascinating concept. Yeah. On the denture note, if you find it just as a, you know, running a dental business, if you find somebody that is good at dentures, they're few and far between now because we don't do them the same way. The old techniques really required that you kind of really knew what you were doing. Right. And so that's a little bit more or less a lost art, getting more and more to be a lost art.

Sure. But if you find somebody that's really good at dentures, you have found yourself. You have found yourself one of the most patient, amazing, skilled, artistic people in all the world because it is a true art. I mean, you're taking, let's call it, I don't know, the equivalent of a thousand dollars for a denture. I don't know how much a denture costs for patients or how much it used to. But let's say it was a thousand dollars.

So maybe the equivalent of a crown or two. And these patients are uncomfortable. It's like wearing a bad shoe. And they come back every time that shoe pinches them. And it's daily and it's minute by minute. ▶Everything you eat hurts your shoe. If you have shoes that hurt, you take them off and you sit in the chair, but you can't always do that in public. And so the people that can really get a denture fitted and they can get it to get suction and be comfortable, those are true, true skilled masters of the craft for sure.

Yeah, I've always heard that in dental school, that's the part that everybody. But so it's required that you do that aspect at some point in dental school, right? Yeah, it is. And it's, it's very trying and difficult. And the patients, right? Like part of, and this is another topic we'll talk about at some point, but dentistry can be really frustrating because, and it's not the patient's fault, but we're doing things that they don't want to have done.

Right. And we're kind of forcing it on them or they're in a situation where it has to be forced on them. And you're trying to get through it together. But that frustration. That frustration creates this barrier that just, it's like hitting against the wall all the time. And so it's, it's, it's a fantastic thing to see a denture, a true denture master get a denture in there. Right. When, when we were in dental school for that portion, we had to fit them in, in our school and go through all the steps and all of that.

And let me tell you, when you go to school, you're not any good at dentures. Right. By no means are you competent at dentures. Right. But they did have us go to the VA and we had to spend maybe like two or three weeks there and kind of shadow. And specifically where I ended up, I don't know if that was true to everybody, but where I ended up was following a guy that all he did all day was dentures.

And it was amazing. What would take me two hours to do poorly was six minutes for him. Right. And, and did amazingly. Right. And, and like in that nature, getting a little bit off topic again. But, um, in that. In that nature, the people behind it, the, the, the lab techs that if we're hiring somebody that's really good at setting teeth and doing a denture or doing denture teeth, um, you've also found a master of their craft.

So that this VA story I'm telling you, um, the people that worked in that lab in the VA, it was this just thing of beautiful, beautiful symbiosis. It was the lab techs. They, they, um, they'd have one tooth put in and that was it. And they would just set the rest of the teeth on it. Cause it would just follow that. Right. And they knew where it was every single time. It was pretty incredible to watch. Um, but yeah, that frustration that, that, um, annoyance of, of being in a denture, most of the time people kind of get used to it.

You know, they, they, it's, it's a thing of comfort cause they know it now.

Part 411:47

Right. They, they get through that hump and they get through that frustration and then they kind of know it. And, and then it becomes scary to leave because leaving it means. Some sort of surgery or something. And so for the most part, that was sort of a dead exercise, right? So that, that kind of didn't hit true. And then when I was in school, um, that kind of started to explode a lot more in the 2005 to 2015 era.

Um, and, and in that time we started to get better made, um, uh, implants for this procedure. Uh, they were, uh, stronger, right? They could be smaller. So they could in, um, grass. They could, uh, grab onto smaller amounts of bone and do a better job, uh, and then the parts started to fit kind of better and start working better and, and I kind of am lucky in the fact that I caught the very beginning upswell wave of this, um, not for the chance to open my own business and do this, but I've gotten to see sort of all of the phases all jammed into one, right?

If, if I was earlier, I wouldn't have sort of seen this part cause I wouldn't have the digital part. Cause I wouldn't have gotten it. I wouldn't have gotten into it as, as early, or I would have been on the tail end. And if I had gotten into it later, I wouldn't have known all of the other parts of it, right? The, the, the nuts and bolts of it. So that period right now is we're starting to get into this, like sign up sort of mature phase of, of hybrid dentistry.

Um, but the, in, in, in doing that, essentially this was always because they already had a denture to work with. There was a lot of different ways you could do it. I mean, you could just leave the denture and you could put the implants in, you could leave the denture, uh, after three months of wearing it, um, they would come back in and, and, uh, this in the tail of me having seen most of this, I've done pretty much all these different ways.

This was the way that I very, probably in the first 50 cases, maybe I did 15 of them this way. Right. Um, and we would burying. Yeah. ▶Put the implants in, put a, put a little cap on the, on the implant and put it underneath the gums and let the gums tissue heal over patient would wear the denture for three months. And then we would come back in, uh, and, and, uh, uncover them, uh, uh, you know, uncover them and, and do a little procedure there where we've, we're playing hide and go seek with the implant.

That was always a lot of fun. And, um, then we would put the abutment on. Right. And the abutment is basically, uh, what is your. Your attachment, right? It's your, it's the, the, the implant is your support. It's your structural beam. And then the, um, the abutment is essentially the screw that your picture frame is going to hang off of. And so it's sort of that translation, right? You've got the stud, the, the picture frame screw, and then the picture frame.

And so the abutment sort of our, our, uh, screw, by the way, since this is only two episodes in, I speak. And a lot of metaphors, sometimes that helps people and sometimes it doesn't know that that was a good metaphor, but, um, we would do that. And then, uh, we would take some records, we'd take some impressions and those impressions, uh, would be with very specific pieces that would tell the lab how to pour it up in stone and then start converting it into whatever you wanted to, uh, or however you were going to build those final teeth.

Usually it was a denture, just a crappy. Acrylic denture. And that was sort of molded over top of a custom made titanium bar. And when I say custom made titanium bar, I am sure what you were thinking of is a milling machine and the grinding sound and all of that. But no, we're literally talking about casting it in a furnace, melting metal down and replacement, all of that stuff. Your typical real cast, cast, um, casting a form.

And so. Wild, wild times, right? Right. We take for granted milling machines nowadays. Yeah. Yeah. We stand, we stand on the shoulders of giants for sure. Um, but, uh, so that was sort of the end to end procedure. Right.

Part 516:09

And, and the difficulty with that is, um, working away from the denture patient. Now we're kind of into more what we would think of as a traditional, um, hybrid patient, which is kind of anybody that has failing teeth or has some significant issues of some sort. Right. ▶Or has already lost a bunch of teeth or maybe they don't have teeth. Right. They can still be denture wearers. Um, that, that patient, um, would go through this sort of long torturous process.

Right. Um, and that was a very frustrating time. And that, that's sort of why we've kind of worked away from that as an industry is it's not that it doesn't work. Right. Like we talked about last week, everything we talk about, whether we kind of diss it or not, it works. It's mostly going to be to the standard of care. Find somebody that cares about you and put some effort into their work, but, uh, it's not about who's better or best or, or, or that kind of thing.

It's, um, it's going to work. Right. Sure. The, the other side, um, dang, I just forgot what I was saying. Um, I don't know, but to sum that little part up right there, I think you're saying like, you know, the journey is, can be different for everyone. That's what, yeah, exactly. Right. The end result you're going to get to regardless of timelines or materials or whatever, you're probably going to end up in, as long as you trust the, the professionals that you're working with and, and they're going to get you to that, to that end.

Um, how you get there is just a matter of clinician preference. You know, different doctors have different ways that they feel more comfortable doing things and what fits in your budget and your timeline as a, as a patient. Yeah. The, the frustration side is something that. Sort of what paved the way for all of these better things to come along. Right. That's, that's why our protocol is the way that it is. The reason why our patients go through this smooth process is because they're standing on, you know, the shoulders of giants, right?

For sure. They are standing on the frustrations of old patients. Some of who even just being in, uh, the, the few years, five, six years you've been with me, you even caught the tail end of that where things were still frustrating. And they were the smoothest they had ever been. Right. Yeah. And so that was always very frustrating to me, uh, an aspect of sort of this historic episode of where we're going through kind of like the rough timeline is that we're, when you would see this patient right after.

And, and, you know, obviously we only talked about sort of the all on form bearing it, that transition as our implants kind of got better and people got a little bit more needy and we already had the denture. We would cut it. We would cut it apart, glue it together so they could wear that, right? The immediate load we'd put the, um, immediately they could kind of choose some sort of food. Something. Yeah. That whole process could be like endlessly infuriating.

And the only time that you got any sort of positive feedback was right away was day one was the, was the reveal, right? The pictures and the, and the videos that everyone's seen on Instagram of the, the, this guy's a firefighter and he's never seen himself with teeth. And. ▶In five years or whatever. And then he's crying and all of that. What they never saw was sort of the other side, the three months of just annoyance and this sort of battle and these walls getting put up between dentist and patient.

And that was absolutely the fire behind us, us tailoring in our protocol and making it a lot more straightforward and better. Um, and I'm sure a lot of other people as well as is eliminating those frustrations. Yeah. I, from my time here, I will say that. A lot of the things that are in practice with our company now were dictated by patient experience. Yeah. So I feel like our journey has kind of been a microcosm of dentistry in general, because from what you're saying, a lot of these changes were implemented to make the experience better for the patient.

Yeah. And I feel like if you prioritize that, you're going to do well. Yeah. The rest comes. Yeah. But being able to do it with the right tools, you know, this.

Part 620:26

This, if let's say that I knew what our protocol was going to end up being in 2025, back in 2015, uh, what would that have changed? Nothing. Right. Cause it requires that sort of long, right? Same thing with like AI. If we knew how AI was going to work back in 1995, we can't do anything. We don't have the computing power. We don't have the pieces. We don't have the storage space. We don't have all the stuff ready to go.

We got dreams. We got dreams. So it all kind of comes along together and it's, it's been a fun journey. Like I said, I've been able to see sort of the, like the making of it and how it's kind of developed. And so it's, it's actually, it's pretty funny. Cause I'm like now the old guy, right? I've got my general dentist that works with me is like, oh my goodness, you used to do this. Like tell us grandpa, what's tell us another story about the olden days with casting a bar.

Well, that's how rapidly I feel like things are involved. ▶Evolve evolving is you don't even have to be five years out and now you're old school. Yeah. It's wild. Knowing, knowing that history has been, been pretty fun, but you know, full arches is a fantastic procedure because it does it now it doesn't just fit denture wares, right? If this just fit denture wares, we'd be leaving an alienating a whole nother group of people. And, and this is a very, I won't say all encompassing.

Cause there's a lot of things that this, you know, um, this, this� process. Um, but I think, I think you know, it's not that easy to, to, to, uh, be able to do this. I mean, where it's not a good idea, right. I'm not going to get a done and one. Um, but if I lose seven teeth, I might write it. It's situational. discount the other procedures. Totally fine. There's a lot of really good clinicians out there doing really good work and they're building, doing some miraculous stuff, building bone and supporting teeth with single implants and those kinds of things. Um, but this is a really good sort of catch all whoops. So this is like a really good catch all that allows people the, the option, right? It's a backstop. And, and when I started going all the way back, you know, to when I was sort of learning about this stuff, they hadn't made it into school yet where it was taught as being a viable option. Cause there really wasn't a lot of timeline. There weren't a lot of like sound procedures. There wasn't like a, a compendium referendum decision on where things need to go or how they, how they go. And it was really viewed as this like very, very, very last resort after you're in a denture forever, put them in this. And then when it fails, just put them in this. And then when it fails, just put them in this. And then when it fails, put them back in a denture and hope they don't, you know, hope they don't come in, shoot your office up. Um, and, and what's been really fun for me is seeing how that's not the attitude we should have at all. And, and actually seeing it change in the public perception, but also in the dental perception, right? The tides are changing. People are warming up to it. And it's not a procedure where you're finished and then you're screwed after you lose an implant and you never can do this again. Right. Are there cases that are, are, are that go South that are bad? Yeah, of course. Right. We all live in a human body. I say that a million times, but

Part 724:12

at the same time, it's one of the most straightforward, easy, uh, you get a lot of stuff out of it too. You know, you get a good bite, you get health back, you get, uh, a good look. Right. And so it is an easy tool to reach for, right? Right. The problem comes and what the guards of dentistry are trying to, the naysayers of, of full arch are trying to do is they're trying to safeguard dentistry. So we don't just, you know, by the time you're 18, everyone just gets it right. Well, that's predatory. That's bad.

And, and so specifically for us, the way that we talk to patients, um, is very like holding the hand. Here's the good, here's the bad, totally your choice. Right. And, and patient wise, the, um, scope and the broad scope of people, right. Just the personalities and the types of people in the background and the rich, poor, you know, all different races, you name it. Um, they, they, that's all of our patient base and it's just filtering that out and working through it together. Right. Um, so yeah, I guess in the beginning we said is full arch hybrids are the greatest dental procedure ever created. And I guess we kind of backed off of that cause we don't want people mad at us, but it kind of is, I feel like as a, you know, non-dentist kind of an outsider looking in, it always blows my mind that something like this is even possible. And I think people really lose sight of that. And I have to remind some people, you know what, 40 years ago from, from 40 years to the beginning of the human species, nothing like this was ever possible.

Like, yeah, it's really easy to lose sight. In the world we live in today, because we take a lot of things for granted. The fact that we can pull up our phone and find any bit of information, human knowledge of all time, you know, we, you kind of got to step back and remember, like some of these things would literally be considered miraculous a century ago. Still are. And still are. It's amazing. You know, it's interesting you say that cause just this week, uh, or just today, this morning, I was taking out, I did a case on a lady and we had to take out four implants. They were just, in the wrong place. And we don't like to, we like to use our, our brand of implants specifically cause I know, and I can trust them. And once you start mixing parts and pieces, it can get real kind of sloppy and ugly. The tire metaphor. I always loved. Yeah, true. Tell the viewers, tell the listeners. Um, well, so when you're, when you're mixing and matching the, the, the implants, there's a lot of different parts and pieces. And so it's a lot like if you went into your, uh, went in to get your car. Yes.

And they said, well, you know, we don't have the, the Goodyear in stock. We have Firestone. Uh, and it doesn't, it's not quite the right size, but it will fit your rim. You know, by the time you leave, by the time you leave the place, you're going to be riding sideways and put extra wear on, on other things. And, you know, to your point, like there's a lot of simple things that you can just kind of logically apply to this procedure. It's nuts and bolts. It's mechanics, it's engineering that really do apply. Right.

So I was taking these implants out today. Um, and I was judging them. I just was thinking of this as you were saying that about, um, thinking about where we came from. I was judging them cause they're not made for what they were put in for. And, um, I was just kind of scoffing at them and like, look at these goofy implants. Well, those implants were made 40 years ago, 30, 30 years ago. Could have been the peak of technology.

Yeah. That was the height. Of the, of the thing. So the reason why those are in there are, or the reason why we have our procedure is because somebody did enough of those that they figured something out that made it better. So I guess that's, that's, that's a good point. You can't, can't judge a implant by its

Part 828:15

threads. Sure. There you go. Clip that one. Yeah, exactly. So, um, yeah, that's just kind of the rundown of, of, uh, kind of where we are and why, why we think it's the greatest procedure and, and a little bit of, of where we came from. But I appreciate you coming in Odom and talking to me about it. And we'll continue to explore all these topics as we go along week by week, day by day. Um, again, like we said last time, um, if we've got any, any questions, we want to make this very tailored.

Collecting questions as we speak. So hopefully next episode we'll have a, you know, Q and A session. We'll have a little Q and A session from, from patient, uh, or, you know, not patients yet, but just people. That are curious people submitting questions. So there's a lot of questions out there. I always say like dentistry and it's, and it's totally understandable, but it's a complete mystery to the average person. And I say that as an average person who knew nothing about dentistry. And I thought it was just me. Like I didn't pay attention in that class or something. Maybe I didn't go to the dentist enough, but I think it's way more prevalent than that. Most people have no idea what their dentist is doing.

And, you know, some dentists are very, you know, they explain things and they want you, you're very good at that. You want people to know kind of how things are going to go. And, and I feel like you like to teach somebody that likes to learn, but there's some dentists that are like, they, you don't need to know all that. Well, I like, I like people to understand what we're doing before we do it. Right. If we're moving a couch and we have to go through a doorway, I don't want to just jump in and have the other person.

And not understand which direction we're going to go. Sure. So the teaching, that's how you tear your, your bicep. You want, you want that person, you want your audience to know what you're doing and where you're going to go and why you're moving the couch in general. Right. And that's where the teaching comes from. It's not like, I just want to like shove information down people's throat. But I think, I think the, like not understanding of the public, not knowing, I think what will be cool about this is it'll be very conversational, right? I'm, I'm wearing a long sleeve hat and hat and long sleeve t-shirt today. That's intentional because I want this to be relaxed. I want, I don't want to go off of a script of in 1972, we may do that occasionally, but I don't want it to feel that way. I want it to be very conversational and very like imparting information because I think there's, there's, there's sort of two sides to it that make it sort of a obscure in terms of the public knowledge.

I think part of it is intentional and we'll get into that because I'm going to blast some people, not people specifically, but the, the industry a little bit. Right. But it's also like, I don't think patients, I think patients just think it's gross and they kind of just shy away from it a little bit and maybe it's a little bit too complex or something, or they think it's going to be too complex. And so we want it to feel comfortable and we want our industry to start kind of opening up and sharing that information, right? We don't need to keep it under lock and key. It's not that, it's not that crazy. There are, you know, different types of patients. You're going to get your one patient that's, I don't care what you're doing. I want it done. I don't need to know the details, but you're going to get a lot of patients that have anxiety. And I think knowing exactly how something is going to go is relieving, is comforting to a lot of people with high anxiety and just, I don't know, you know, it's always scary going into something when you have no idea how it's going to go. So I think just this, this trend, and I always say is social media has got to be a part of it. I think it's a part of it. I think it's a part of it.

I think it's got a lot to do with it, but like people are educating themselves and I feel like they're walking in and sitting in the chair more comfortable because they know more about what's going to happen. Yeah. That's my take. Absolutely. Absolutely. And that's, that's the whole point of this, right? Yes. Us opening up. We've always tried to be transparent. We've always tried to be conversational. We've always tried to keep like, make sure that the procedure goes smooth and easy on my side, on your side, on their side. Cause that just makes everyone's life better. And so that'll be, this will be a really fun podcast, like really fun, like deep dive into this sort of like less formal, very informational, just kind of chill, chill approach to it. So we appreciate you listening, like subscribe, download, send a friends, follow us. We have a Facebook group.

That's very popular. I think we're coming up on maybe a couple thousand people or something, but a large majority of those people. ▶Our patients who have been through the process. So we always recommend, you know, if you're curious, join our Facebook group, also very open and uncensored. We do not mess with anything there. It is an open forum for discussion, the good, the bad, the ugly. So we always highly encourage people if you have questions or, you know, just kind of want to get insight from the people who have been there, join our Facebook group. It's called Dun & One Dental Implant Group. That's, that's a, that's a good one.

Um, we're on all socials, visit our website. What is the, what is the, where, if, if a person's listening and they're not in the Facebook group or whatnot, um, where should they email? How do they get a question to us? Yeah. You can email us anytime at smile at get done in one.com. Um, and to be honest with you, pick up your phone and give us a call. Yeah. 5 6 1 4 6 8 8 8 1 2. And we'll get you to the right place. If, if you have a question, you think, you know, we might be able to answer right off the rip. Just give us a call. We'll, we'll talk it out. Um, if you will have a list of questions that maybe you're not comfortable speaking with a patient care coordinator, email them to us. Um, join our Facebook group, ask there, um, come on our website, fill out a form. Uh, just, I want to say our website is very informative.

We have tried to answer every question we've ever heard on our website. So that's a really good place to start, but you can't fit every single question everyone's ever going to have on a website. So there's going to be more questions. We encourage them. We want you to reach out. We want to answer them. We want you to feel comfortable as you're researching and looking into this. So again, call email, text, if you want to in any way that's your most comfortable with reach out to us. And we're here to get you the answers you need to feel comfortable.

Awesome. Well, thanks Robert. Thanks for having me. We'll have you another time. Sounds good. Maybe we'll do another one after this. We'll see, but, uh, appreciate you guys listening and, uh, we'll see you soon. Thank you.